It’s been a wild ride for The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. Immediately after the women dealt with former star Jen Shah‘s legal battle that landed her a hefty six-and-a-half-year prison sentence, they were bamboozled by one-season wonder Monica Garcia, who was secretly trolling them on an Instagram fan account. While Season 5’s drama already has fans physically shaking, star Lisa Barlow promised that this season is, overall, much “lighter” than previous installments of the Bravo show.
“I think [this season is] so good. It’s lighter than normal,” Barlow told DECIDER when she stopped by our studio last week. “No one’s going to prison, and we don’t have anyone stalking us so [it’s] a little lighter. But I think it’s really intense and really good.”
Barlow started Season 5 on a bumpy note with Whitney Rose, who had called her the “villain” of the group in a podcast shortly before the first cast dinner party. And while Barlow and Meredith Marks have finally embarked on their “second relationship” following the former’s infamous hot mic moment in Season 2, Barlow and Angie Katsanevas appear to be on a downward spiral — especially following their recent social media feud, in which Katsanevas savagely accused Barlow of having her G-Wagon repossessed.
“I don’t think Chat GPT could even help them,” Barlow said, referring to Katsanevas’ “embarrassing” social media posts. “I do have a Range Rover, but I also have a G-Wagon in my garage. When you have a title, no one can take it away from you. But your lip filler, you can dissolve.”
Barlow also accused some of her co-stars of going “so far left” that they won’t be able to come back from it, noting that they “should’ve learned from” Garcia, who was not asked back for Season 5 after she was outed for her part in Reality Von Tease.
Baby Gorgeous recently stopped by DECIDER’s studio, where she dished on the show’s upcoming “Lisas dinner,” her friendships with her co-stars, and what it was like working with Southern Charm stars Austen Kroll and Shep Rose on a recent Wendy’s campaign. Check out the full interview below.
LISA BARLOW: Yes, it does, but in a very different way. I feel like my Season 5 felt like my Season 1 for me, exacerbated. I think it’s so good. It’s lighter than normal. No one’s going to prison, and we don’t have anyone stalking us so [it’s] a little lighter. But I think it’s really intense and really good. It was nice to have fresh blood in the mix, too. In a nice way, not in a “fresh blood, we’re going to take you out” kind of way.
Before we get into it, I am curious about whether you think Monica will ever come back? Do you think she has a chance at reconciling with the group?
I think Monica has put herself in a position where she can’t apologize. She’s still talking about me and Heather. Someone just told me yesterday that she went on a podcast and was being so derogatory towards Heather. I don’t think Housewives is for everyone. I’m not Bravo. I don’t make the decision. But I also think it’s really tough to be around someone where it’s easier to argue with Henry than it is with her because it’s the same kind of jeers. It’s always a retort back to “you’re ugly” or “fix your face” or something really nasty. She put herself in a position where it’s hard. I don’t know if anyone can trust her, and trust is a huge thing when you’re doing something like this.
That’s what’s important in any Real Housewives show. You guys have to be somewhat friends and some sort of foundation has to exist.
Friend is a key word, and it needs to be there. If you don’t have friends, you don’t have anyone that you can be yourself with, that you can trust. That makes it really hard. 
Let’s talk about this premiere, which was so good. Was it a lot of pressure to host the first cast dinner party of the season?
Not for me, but I love doing events. I do huge events for major companies and organizations, mostly in the entertainment space. For me, doing Sundance for so many years and every trip I plan is over the top. I’m the same way when it comes to doing an event. For me, I’m like, 35 people? No problem.
That’s light work!
Yeah, light work. And I have a good team, too. You can see a bit of them in the episode. They’re used to doing this and used making things exceptional. The party was at this place called Blue Sky, which is basically an Aman property north of the one we have down south. It was a beautiful place. It was a lot of fun. I’m like, “Besitos for everyone.” Well, almost everyone.
It’s no secret that you and Whitney have had your issues in the past. Why do you think she referred to you as the villain? Who would you say is the true villain this season?
No one’s strong enough to be the villain, I think, and that’s a true statement. I think you have to be really mentally strong. I understand why she would say I’m the villain because I’m mentally strong, I’m direct, and I’m thoughtful with how I say things, most of the time. I think what happens is every year at the reunion, Whitney gets called out on her lies. This last reunion, she was like, “You didn’t check on me.” It’s ways to denigrate my character and make herself a victim. So this last time, at the reunion, I was like, “No, I checked in on you. I checked in on you multiple times. I sent you flowers, all these things.” And she was like, “It didn’t happen, it didn’t happen.” And then they flash to it. I saw on social media that she was writing books about like, “Oh they made that up.” And I’m like, “You can’t make that scene up — it happened. They flashed to it in real-time.” So I think she just had a hard time with that.
And she said, “Lisa doesn’t like to be wrong.” Whitney doesn’t like to be called out on her lies. I wasn’t wrong or I wouldn’t have said it. If I’m wrong, I’ll say it. But she’s not the villain. You have to be way stronger than her. You can’t be a liar if you’re a villain. You have to be someone who can own things, come out with things, be direct about things. That’s not her.
You weren’t the only one who went off on Whitney at your dinner party. By the end, she also has Meredith and Heather yelling at her. Why do you think Whitney keeps finding herself in feuds with you and your castmates? Would you say she’s the Monica or Jen Shah of Season 5 when it comes to bringing the drama?
No. That would be giving her a lot more credit. Not even a little bit. I think she finds herself in this position because she’ll feel like she’s not getting attention so she lies, and she’s lied about Heather. She chased Heather out of a bar in Bermuda and was like, “You’re benefiting from me.” And Heather’s like, “No, I’m not.” If you read what Heather wrote, it’s the antithesis of what Whitney is saying she wrote. So when you lie about people, they’re going to get frustrated, and they’re going to call you a liar. This dinner is the tone for the whole season.
There’s one point where I tell Whitney, “You’re lying about me, and you’re going to have to say you’re sorry, and I’m not going to forgive you this time.” I think we’ve all given her an insane amount of grace. I feel like she gets so much grace. Everyone’s like, “Oh, it’s just Whitney.” But now she’s doing things that are damaging people. When your lies are dangerous and damaging, it’s a problem. You’ll see. And it’s not cool, pot-stirring. It’s not real. It’s not like she’s taking real scenarios and putting them out there. It’s fabricated. That’s why if you lie, we’re going to call you a liar. And she leaves because she doesn’t know what to say. 
Mary is back as a full-time Housewife. How did you feel about that? And would you say your friendship is fully healed from your past issues?
Mary and I can be extremely direct with each other, which makes it nice. She’ll say something, and I can quip back. There’s stuff cut from the reunion that you guys don’t get to see. There’s a respect there where Mary knows I don’t lie. Mary knows that when it’s a big deal thing, I’ll have her back. I hate that “I’ll have your back” thing. I’m so sick of saying that. But I feel like she knows I’ll be there for her. We have our relationship tested this season, but we come out fine. I texted Mary yesterday, and she texted back. It’s wasn’t one-sided. She like, “I feel like we’re good.” And I feel like we’re good, too.
Good! Because it’s nice to see her back in the mix.
Mary’s a different Mary this season. She’s engaged, she’s involved, she’s speaking her mind. She’s not disengaging. I feel like she’s very present. It’s a whole different side of Mary. It’s always been there, I just think we’re all seeing a different side of it.
When we talked to Meredith, she said that things are really positive between you two at the start of the season. But then she said we’ll have to see how things are by the end. Can you tease what she might mean by that?
We’re on our second relationship. Meredith and I have been friends for a long time. We’re going on 13 or 14 years. I think when you go through a lot, she knows my kids. She’s known Henry since he was a baby, and they would have dinner with us with our kids. They were at Jack’s big 10th birthday party. You’ll see the test of our relationship and how we grow.
People love to meddle in our relationship, openly meddle and try to cause problems. That’s what happened before, and we both felt hurt. I ranted, and she retaliated. But we’re so far past that. We don’t even think about that. When other people in the group bring it up, I’m like, “Why are you even bringing this up? It’s not your relationship.” If I held everyone accountable for everything they’ve done wrong, I think their tickers would be way higher than ours.
It’s like a sisterly relationship. You say things you don’t mean when you’re in the heat of the moment and come back from it, and it’s always nice to see that. That’s just how sisters are.
I can say, “Die bitch,” and we can go shopping five minutes later. I don’t want her to die, though.
It’s no secret how close you are with your kids. How is Jack doing? Is he still on his mission? How much of them are we going to get to see this season?
I hope a lot. I love when I get to share my family with everyone. They’re my whole entire universe. Jack is doing amazing. He’s in Bogota, Colombia. He has nine months left on his mission out of two years. So he’s doing amazing. He came home for a health concern for three weeks right around his year mark, but he’s back, and he’s loving it. His Spanish is perfection. I love listening to him when I’m on the phone with him. We get to talk to him every Monday. I love hearing him talk to other people like, “Solamente habla en español, por favor.” Like, “Speak only in Spanish, please.” I love it so much. I’m so proud of him. Henry has changed so much since we saw him in the pilot. He had just finished first grade and then started second grade the first year we were out, so it’s so fun to watch their growth and see Henry doesn’t have a shaved head anymore, he has hair. And he’s very into who he is. It’s fun seeing your kids grow into their own. Jack and Henry are so much alike, but they’re so different, too. It’s just loving them for their strengths. I love being their mom. I feel lucky.
You and Angie seem to go at it this season. I know we all saw the back and forth on X. What is going on there?
I know when to stop. Some people don’t. I get frustrated because I introduce my friends to the show, and I’m very loyal. I’m an extremely loyal person. I was the only one who checked in on Angie when all this stuff was going on with her and Jen. I took her side on some things that I shouldn’t have even taken her side on. I just felt like she needed it and I felt bad for her. Last year, I vehemently defended her marriage, her business, her dad, anything that came at her. And I pumped the brakes with Meredith. You see me tell her, “I pumped the brakes with you.” Angie never disclosed that she already knew that Meredith wasn’t responsible for everything on the scroll, and she won’t let it go. This year, I think she was thinking, “Oh, Lisa will take Whitney’s side, and I’m going to help facilitate that.” She was saying every reason I should not like Meredith. I’m like, “Meredith and I have history.” I pump the brakes on lies. It’s lies by omission, because she would leave stuff out where we were all brutally going after Meredith. I look back and I’m like, “That was so wrong.” I’ve talked to Meredith about it, but I don’t want friendships like that. It’s very one-sided.
I felt like I was constantly listening to her on the phone. As she says, “Lisa and I talk seven times a day.” We did, but I was mostly giving her affirmations and helping her with situations, prepping her for new situations. I’ve never had that. I was so grateful that I could do that for her, but I feel like it got taken advantage of and that’s really frustrating. I would have been fine, but she took stuff that I told her in confidence off camera, my feelings. They all love to talk about feelings. Like, “My feelings, my feelings.” I shared my feelings on things that I’m not okay with because I have personal boundaries. She took that back to Whitney and told her everything. There’s no trust there anymore because I’m like, “You have done this multiple times where you take information and share it with people you shouldn’t be sharing it with.” When you’re on a show, you want trust. You want honesty. You want someone that’s actually going to be your friend. When you watch this dinner, and I think you’ll all see tonight, you’ll see she told her a lot. It’s really frustrating for me because I’ve never done that to her. Even when Meredith and I weren’t on good terms, we never divulged confidences we shared with each other. 
I feel like Angie is always doing the most.
She’s trying. The scroll was super cheesy. It was worse than the burn book. I thought Meredith’s comeback [on social media] — Meredith didn’t tag Angie. You’re going to see Meredith go through a spiritual journey this season. It’s one I love, and I’m so happy for her and her comeback was so good. She just posted, “The only scroll I read is the Torah.” And then I said, “Mazel tov.” I didn’t think that was going to turn into something where there are three girls together, scheming. They’re all together in L.A. and it’s like, “Oh we’re going to figure out what we’re gonna write back.” I’m like, “It took you two hours to respond the first time, and again the second time.” I don’t think Chat GPT could even help them.
I do have a Range Rover, but I also have a G-Wagon in my garage. When you have a title, no one can take it away from you. But your lip filler, you can dissolve.
You’re the queen of comebacks.
It was embarrassing for them. I’m like, just stop. Like, you guys are going so left. You’re going so far left, you can’t come back from it. You should’ve learned from Monica.
I have to ask. Have you watched The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives? What do you think about the show? Have you ever met any of the #MomTok squad?
Utah has a crazy culture. I’m a transplant. My husband and I did not grow up in Utah. We have a different perspective on Utah. But if you grow up in it, I think the experience is super different. I wouldn’t say Heather can relate to them, but Heather’s gone through a religious journey, and I think those girls are going through the same thing. I haven’t watched it, but they’re filming all around town. I feel like it’s chaotic, and they’re young, and their perspectives now I think are going to change in a few years. But it’s weird. Polygamy is weird. Their perspective on Mormon is so different. But a lot of people in Utah that are born and raised there might have a similar experience. Maybe not the swinging, the soft swinging, but the other stuff.
Out of all the Housewives, your SponCon is by far the best. What was it like filming your recent Wendy’s ad with Southern Charm stars Shep Rose and Austen Kroll?
I love Austen. I feel like I’m a big sister to him. I chastise him all the time. I’m like, “Austen, this is what you need to do if you want to be serious about dating.” It was so fun to be with them. They were naturals. I am such a huge Wendy’s fan that for me, it’s everything. They were huge Wendy’s fans, too. So I think that’s fun. But they’re awesome. I really love Austen, though. He goes through a lot on his show, but I think he’s maturing probably off camera, and boys mature later. But they’re super fun, and they’re naturals. They were like, “Wait, are we just ourselves?” And I’m like, “Yes!” Their lines were so on-brand for them. I thought it was so good. I literally feel like a big sister to Austen. I’ll watch the show and text him and be like, “Why did you do that? Say you’re sorry.”
Are there any other shows besides Southern Charm you’re going to be watching this fall?
I love Beverly Hills. I have a soft spot for Kyle [Richards]. I love Kathy [Hilton], I love Kyle. That’s her show. There are great characters on there. That’s one I’ll be watching. And New York, I’m like, “This is my home.” I’ll always have an affinity to New York. I love Jenna [Lyons], I love Erin [Lichy], I love Sai [De Silva]. They’re all just really cool girls. The more they’re on, the more I think people are going to understand them and see their dynamic. We love old New York, but we love new New York, too.
We’ve only seen a tantalizing clip of the sure-to-be iconic “Lisas Dinner.” Which of your castmates does the best “Lisa” and why?
Meredith was amazing. She created a voicemail for me. You have to have her do it. She’s like, “Hi, baby gorgeous. I can’t come to the phone right now because I’m sipping a Diet Coke, and I bet you don’t love that.” You have to have her do it. It’s so amazing. She did a good job because she brought in the things I talk about all the time, things we talk about on the phone. I thought it was really fun. Whitney tried really hard. She knocked off my pants from three years ago, Tom Ford pants. The only thing she got wrong, big time, was I had my tag on a pair of pants one time, and she had to zoom in on me on her phone to even see it because I was running to the bathroom on a campout. She was like, “Lisa always has the tags on her pants.” It’s because I get new stuff all the time.
That lunch, I walked out of my room and I was like, “Oh my gosh.” I didn’t know what to think at first. I was like, “What is happening?” But I loved every second of it because I don’t like themes and I feel like this was one thing I could get on board with because I didn’t have to dress up. It was amazing. It was a crazy lunch, too. What transpires at that lunch is insane.
Didn’t you take the wig off of Whitney’s head?
She’ll never be me. With what she was saying, she deserved it. And it’s not what you saw, it’s completely different.
What else can you tease about the rest of the season? Anything you’re excited for fans to see? Dreading needing to relive?
There’s nothing I’m really dreading but where we end up at the end of the season is amazing. We’re in Mexico. My heart is in Mexico. We have a business that’s based in Mexico, so that trip is unbelievable. It was my first time having a cast trip. And so I’m like, “This is how I do trips.” It’s really different from everyone else. It was fun to be able to express and share that with my cast. I love that trip. I think one thing that happens every year for us is that relationships change organically, and they’re totally different from what you would expect from the past. Even how things transpire throughout the whole season, it’s different. It’s like being on a merry-go-round in elementary school and who you’re pushing off — that’s how it feels sometimes. I think it’s a great season, so different. It felt like Season 1 to me. I felt like we were back in Season 1, [with] these antiquated things but in a new way. My eyes are wide open to a lot of things. I don’t think I’ll be giving as much grace moving forward. I can move on. But grace means other people move on, too.
